Episode 5
Power Moves Only: Closing The Gender Pension Gap And Building Wealth With Helen Bandcroft
“Speak up for yourself and say it with your chest.” – Helen Bandcroft, Sales Leader & Investor
“It's about not being smaller so others can be taller.” – Jo Phillips, The Woman Behind The Women
Episode Summary
This week in The Chat Womb, Jo Phillips sits down with Helen Bandcroft, sales leader, part-time investor, and unapologetic champion of financial empowerment. Jo and Helen unpack one of the most overlooked inequalities facing women today: the gender pension gap.
Helen shares her journey from hairdressing to sales leadership, revealing how she strategically built her wealth through shares, investing, and financial self-education, despite the systems not being designed for women to win.
They talk about salary negotiations, workplace power dynamics, financial freedom, and how to start building wealth (especially if you feel behind).
Episode Highlights
(02:10) – Introducing Helen Bandcroft: Sales leader, investor & financial empowerment advocate
(04:00) – The shocking stats behind the gender pension gap
(05:00) – From hairdressing to head office: Helen’s career journey
(07:30) – The power of shares, and how they helped Helen buy her first flat
(10:15) – Why asking for shares may be smarter than asking for a raise
(13:00) – Where to start if you’ve never invested: tools, tips & resources
(15:00) – Investing secretly: your money = your options
(20:00) – Walking away from a job on principle and what happened next
(28:00) – What Helen would tell her 21-year-old self (and her 13-year-old goddaughter)
(32:00) – Assertive vs. Aggressive: Standing your ground and speaking with purpose
About Our Guest: Helen Bandcroft
Helen Bandcroft is a sales leader, public speaker, and part-time investor with a fierce passion for helping women understand their worth, in life and in their finances.
From leaving school early and working in hairdressing to buying her own flat with her share payout, Helen has built a career and financial portfolio on her own terms. She’s a firm believer in speaking up, investing wisely, and carving out power in rooms that weren’t designed for women.
Follow Helen on LinkedIn
About your host: Jo Phillips
Jo coaches ambitious women like you to break through career barriers, own their worth, and finally get the career and salary they deserve. Through 1:1 coaching, Jo helps you identify what’s holding you back, to build an unapologetic strategy for success, cheerleading you every step of the way—because you already have what it takes. It’s time to stop waiting and start moving with audacity…
Connect with Jo:
Website: The Woman Behind The Women
Socials: Linkedin / Instagram: @thewomanbehindthewomen
'The Chat Womb' is hosted by Jo Phillips and proudly produced by Decibelle Creative: @decibelle_creative / www.decibellecreative.com
Transcript
>> Helen Bandcroft: Speak up for yourself and say it with your
Speaker:chest, as I like to say as well. Just own it
Speaker:and own your power and own your strength in
Speaker:a room. Don't ever be afraid to
Speaker:stand your ground and stand in your power, because
Speaker:you have a voice. It deserves to be
Speaker:heard.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Hi, thanks for stopping by. We've been waiting
Speaker:for you. Welcome to the chat room,
Speaker:the space for becoming who you were always supposed to
Speaker:be.
Speaker:This is not another fluffy empowerment podcast.
Speaker:This is where we get real about the barriers that hold
Speaker:women like you back. The pay
Speaker:rises. We don't ask for the promotions. We're
Speaker:already qualified for the roles we've been
Speaker:conditioned to shrink ourselves into.
Speaker:I'm Jo Phillips, founder, of the Woman behind the Women.
Speaker:And I'm here to help you see the system, for what
Speaker:it is. So you stop internalising the
Speaker:bullshit and start moving with
Speaker:audacity. You'll
Speaker:find all the information you need to connect or work with
Speaker:me in the show notes. For now though, come and take a
Speaker:seat in the chat room because it's time to introduce you
Speaker:to today's guest.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Welcome. My absolute pleasure seeing
Speaker:you this morning. Thank you so much for being here. I wanted
Speaker:to introduce to everybody who is listening or watching,
Speaker:so it's my pleasure to introduce Helen Bancroft, who
Speaker:is hacker jobs, account director, part time
Speaker:investor and all round female
Speaker:powerhouse. So thank you so much for being here.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Oh, you're so welcome. What an intro. Love that. For us.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: This is you, so thank you so much. And today
Speaker:we're going to talk about how Helen's created her own financial
Speaker:freedom, narrowed her pension gap
Speaker:and created a really powerful attitude towards
Speaker:wealth. And I'm not sure that
Speaker:everyone's aware, but it's so interesting that the gender
Speaker:pension gap is so significant for women.
Speaker:On average, women need to work an extra 19
Speaker:years to accumulate the same pension
Speaker:savings as men. Oils me. This does Helen.
Speaker:Yeah, oils totally boils me.
Speaker:By the time women reach state pension age
Speaker:of 67, we typically have
Speaker:£69,000 in our pension
Speaker:pots. What does that do? What does
Speaker:£69,000 do? Because it doesn't do anything.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Get you through a year. I don't even know.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Wouldn't. Wouldn't get you through a year. And that's in comparison
Speaker:to about 250,000 that men would usually have
Speaker:in their pension pots.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah, make that make sense.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: It's just absolutely nuts. And of course we know that
Speaker:there's loads of different contributory factors, career
Speaker:interruptions. So women take time off for engaging in their
Speaker:care responsibilities. Part Time work that of course women do,
Speaker:because again, we're expected to care. We're expected to do the work
Speaker:or the, the unpaid domestic care. and of course
Speaker:lower earnings. And all of this contributes massively
Speaker:to a great big holes.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: In our pension pot.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: So I'm just so honoured to have you here because I know
Speaker:that this is something that not only have you noted
Speaker:much earlier on, but also you've made some
Speaker:significant moves to make sure
Speaker:that you're not caught in that gap, which is why
Speaker:you're here today. So I'm so honoured to have you here
Speaker:and I guess I wanted to just start off and really just kind of find
Speaker:out a bit more about, you know, those underlying reasons
Speaker:that you chose. And we're so keen to become
Speaker:financially free in a world that isn't, set
Speaker:up for women to do. So will be so
Speaker:sure.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: I mean, I'll start by saying I love money and, that helps.
Speaker:And I'm also a very competitive person,
Speaker:naturally, so I think that also helps too.
Speaker:Two key factors. And money
Speaker:does not buy happiness 100%, but it certainly
Speaker:buys freedom and it certainly buys.
Speaker:Wise, more of a peace of mind. Because
Speaker:if you are financially free or
Speaker:financially better off and not on the
Speaker:breadline, then you have the opportunity to. To
Speaker:take time to decide what's best. I
Speaker:think I'd probably start by saying that. and then in
Speaker:terms of sort of, I guess what my journey and
Speaker:how I became. I'm, definitely not financially
Speaker:free. Just like to caveat that. But I'm on the
Speaker:road.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: But, yeah, I think I started life, you know, my
Speaker:professional career as a hairdresser. So I did
Speaker:hairdressing for five years. I've got a few
Speaker:strings to my bow. But yeah, started off as a hairdresser. I still
Speaker:actually have same clients 20 years later.
Speaker:But, yeah, soon found out
Speaker:that, well, one, I'm very tall, so my back was
Speaker:not in a good position. and then two,
Speaker:that there's no money in. In hairdressing you have to
Speaker:be incredibly passionate about it and it's almost a vocation,
Speaker:but it certainly, you know, isn't gonna
Speaker:pay the mortgage. And, just purely
Speaker:by chance, where I was working, there was a
Speaker:tiny little concession of a car phone warehouse, in
Speaker:the. In the department store I was working in. And.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Oh, I haven't realised. So you're hairdressing, but you can
Speaker:see the concession from where you're. Okay.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: So then I got friends, with somebody there and
Speaker:they bought me in And I started off at Car Phone
Speaker:Warehouse in retail for about eight months and
Speaker:then this is going back to
Speaker:1999 there was actually an IRA
Speaker:bomb in Ealing and I was in Luckily no one
Speaker:was hurt, nothing happened because it was late at night
Speaker:but the branch I was in exploded so I
Speaker:had nowhere to work so I ended up moving to head
Speaker:office and I was, I moved into
Speaker:direct sales and then that was the start of my
Speaker:sort of career at Carne Warehouse. Absolutely loved it. I was
Speaker:there for nine years in that period.
Speaker:I started off as a salesperson
Speaker:selling, you know business to consumer so
Speaker:sold the first ever touchscreen phone,
Speaker:first ever iPhone. TalkTalk launched
Speaker:when I was at Carphone Warehouse. We even had
Speaker:vibration mode on mobiles that never existed
Speaker:before. So I really was in the
Speaker:era of mobile phones becoming a
Speaker:staple and a household staple.
Speaker:And then in that period I started as a
Speaker:salesperson but worked my way up to team management
Speaker:where I swiftly discovered for the first and last
Speaker:time that people management isn't for me
Speaker:because the responsibility is
Speaker:huge.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Right, yeah.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: And also came to realise that I
Speaker:really wanted to get into business, to business sales and
Speaker:I was ah, done with the
Speaker:general public and common sense not being so
Speaker:common so actually
Speaker:took voluntary redundancy after nine years and
Speaker:then my, one of the area managers
Speaker:actually worked at Barclays and then I
Speaker:moved into bank banking so I went from telecoms into
Speaker:banking. I was at Barclays for three and
Speaker:a half years and that was when I
Speaker:established that B2B was the
Speaker:way forward dealing with business owners, setting up
Speaker:business accounts. Really, really
Speaker:interesting. Learn all about profit and loss,
Speaker:learn all about net profit
Speaker:and actually understanding
Speaker:revenue, and net and gross
Speaker:profit and what that all means. So that was a really good
Speaker:introduction into the world of, of business to business,
Speaker:there for three and a half years, then moved into
Speaker:from there into telecoms. So I was at
Speaker:BT for a couple of years and then from
Speaker:telecoms into software
Speaker:and that's where I've been since so career
Speaker:development with software and now most recently
Speaker:in recruitment software.
Speaker:So yes, a bit of a journey for sure. But I think in
Speaker:terms of the financially free and the sort of essence of this
Speaker:session at Car Phone Warehouse we
Speaker:got to understand and learn about sharesave
Speaker:and that was my first introduction into
Speaker:the world of, you know, contributing
Speaker:a percentage of your salary into shares
Speaker:and actually when the
Speaker:whole Talk Talk merger came about or so I think it was
Speaker:Best Buy but either way, you know two
Speaker:colleagues of mine made a huge amount of
Speaker:Money and then invested that all into their own business. And
Speaker:I was like, well, I want a bit of this. And that's where it started.
Speaker:So, you know, right back in 1999,
Speaker:I was, you know, contributing 10%
Speaker:of my salary into share save
Speaker:and then I ensured that every opportunity since
Speaker:then, if there was a share save option,
Speaker:I'd be doing it. And it also meant that that money
Speaker:didn't get spent because I never saw it, which is
Speaker:really help.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Yeah. Effectively it never arrived home. Right. It kind of
Speaker:got drawn out of source. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: And the biggest. The biggest win for me,
Speaker:I think I'm one of very few people that
Speaker:actually have a positive story to say about COVID in
Speaker:terms of the return. But, you know, at the period
Speaker:of time I was, just finished working in a
Speaker:company called RingCentral. RingCentral are a direct
Speaker:competitor to Zoom. And when I
Speaker:joined Ringcentral, I was, you know, you get gifted
Speaker:a certain amount of shares and then again, I was doing my share save
Speaker:options and the percentage
Speaker:markup when I sold my shares meant I
Speaker:could buy my flat or put the deposit down for
Speaker:my flat.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Wow.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah. So that's a huge deal.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Wow.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: For sure. For sure. So, you know,
Speaker:life goals. I've always wanted to live where I live
Speaker:now. I've always wanted to have a W in my postcode. I.
Speaker:In my mind, I've made it like, in terms of I'm,
Speaker:you know, I'm where I want to be in terms of where I'm living.
Speaker:And then, you know, financially, it meant that I had had enough,
Speaker:that my mortgage repayments means I still get to live
Speaker:a very nice life. So, yeah, that's a little bit of a
Speaker:sort of career journey and also a bit of a
Speaker:flavour into sort of share save and how
Speaker:that can really work to your advantage.
Speaker:Yeah, I suppose. Sorry. One thing as well, Joe, to
Speaker:mention, carry on.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Again, we were never. Well, listen, we were never going to not run over
Speaker:on time. And then you carry on.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: The other point to mention is, again, when I joined my
Speaker:most recent company, so when I joined Hacker Job,
Speaker:I didn't negotiate my salary, I
Speaker:negotiated my share package. That is the
Speaker:only thing that I needed to
Speaker:negotiate. I wanted more shares. I was very happy
Speaker:with the package that was put in front of me. And I'll
Speaker:never forget my boss at the time said, we're going
Speaker:to offer you what you're worth, not
Speaker:what you're currently earning, which really stuck with
Speaker:me. And shares was the biggest thing. And
Speaker:again, we got, you know, as a business, a
Speaker:25 million pound investment. So we're series B.
Speaker:I don't know what the plans are, the ultimate
Speaker:plans, but all I know is that, the more skin I've got in the game
Speaker:in terms of share options, the better I'll be.
Speaker:So, you know, what that future holds, whether we
Speaker:ipo, whether we sell, I don't know. But
Speaker:again, every year or every opportunity to
Speaker:have conversations around, you know, pay,
Speaker:it's always give them all to me in chess.
Speaker:So that is the key. And yes, there's a risk,
Speaker:but, you know, like they say, the bigger the risk, the
Speaker:bigger the gain, really. So for me, it's all
Speaker:about being quite ballsy with shares and share
Speaker:options and stocks and shares ISIS and all
Speaker:of that good stuff because the return is, is huge.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: And in your opinion, what do you think that, you know somebody
Speaker:who's listening to us talking.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Who thinks, wow, she's in a W postcode,
Speaker:she's got a big smile on her face, she had her shares pay out.
Speaker:My response to that is that, well, none of that was luck. My response to that
Speaker:is that was hard work and making the right decisions. And I guess
Speaker:my question to you is about, well, how does she.
Speaker:How does another one of us.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Who maybe hasn't ever
Speaker:talked about shares before? How does
Speaker:she start that journey but do it
Speaker:in a way that feels comfortable.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yep.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: What's the, what are, the. What would you suggest to, the kind of. The
Speaker:steps that she could take.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Fine. Firstly,
Speaker:if you're in a position to
Speaker:whatever portion of your salary
Speaker:or income, however, your income is whatever
Speaker:portion you can save,
Speaker:but save in shares rather than
Speaker:a bank account. And the reason I say
Speaker:this is because you're actually losing money. Because
Speaker:whatever interest your current bank account can give
Speaker:you is less than the bank of England base rate.
Speaker:So therefore you're, ah, at a loss already automatically.
Speaker:So that's the first thing. So whatever percentage of
Speaker:your income you can save, put it into
Speaker:shares. Even if it's 25 pound, 50 pound,
Speaker:whatever you can, can do.
Speaker:I would suggest following female Invest,
Speaker:who is, on Instagram. I know for
Speaker:sure. Female invest are amazing. They're
Speaker:relatable. They're all women. They all talk about
Speaker:trying to make you financially free and giving you
Speaker:the confidence to make decisions.
Speaker:I personally have got a, trading account
Speaker:on ig. Different IG this time.
Speaker:So Instagram is ig, but no, this is the, the financial
Speaker:ig. And so that's where I have done
Speaker:some historical trading. But Equally I've just set
Speaker:Nutmeg, which is absolutely brilliant because
Speaker:you can do a risk rating on your
Speaker:percentage of what you'd like to put
Speaker:in and nutmeg do
Speaker:everything for you. So again, it's a case of, you know, setting up
Speaker:a direct debit each month for whatever amount
Speaker:or moving a bulk amount in and
Speaker:they take care of everything for you. So, you know,
Speaker:my returns for this year are really, really good. Like
Speaker:in the hundreds. Yeah, in the hundreds. Within.
Speaker:Within nine months.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: No way. In the hundreds.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah, yeah, in the hundreds.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: So in the hundreds. Which can make a significant difference
Speaker:to any woman out there who knows that she's already
Speaker:underpaid. Yes, that's, that's starting to make
Speaker:the difference. Right. That's making her finances work for her
Speaker:and independently.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And that's the thing. So
Speaker:you know, again, if you're in a position, when you're working full
Speaker:time or working in a business and
Speaker:shares an option, 100%, do
Speaker:a share save, scheme
Speaker:or ask for shares if they're,
Speaker:if that's applicable. And again,
Speaker:risky. But if it, if you're in a position
Speaker:to, and you're able to, rather than take a pay
Speaker:rise at ah, your you know, annual review or
Speaker:six month review, again, if your business are fortunate enough to
Speaker:be in that position, always go for the
Speaker:shares, in my opinion. Because.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: For the shares.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah, yeah. Because you just end up making
Speaker:so much more. you know, most recently
Speaker:I was fortunate enough to, to get a
Speaker:second promotion actually within a year.
Speaker:And you know, I was in a position where I
Speaker:had that option and I always.
Speaker:And again I went for the shares. So.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: And I guess I'm just thinking again about different
Speaker:individual situations and circumstances and particularly her.
Speaker:And I'm thinking if she's trapped in a relationship
Speaker:that she's unhappy in.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Nobody needs to know that she's doing that. Right. No, she's just
Speaker:creating her return on her investment. She's giving
Speaker:herself those financial choices.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yep. Yeah, for sure. So anybody there?
Speaker:Definitely. Because no one will know because
Speaker:you get your pay slip and that's that. So.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Yeah, nobody's ever gonna know. Yeah, that's what you're
Speaker:doing.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Interesting, isn't it, that there's so many different, so many different
Speaker:things that we have to think about as women?
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yes, yes, absolutely. And, and
Speaker:you know, historically I've been in that position,
Speaker:but not to that extent. I was early 20s,
Speaker:got myself out of that. But not in a,
Speaker:you know, situationship or relationship
Speaker:whereby you'd have to think that. But, yeah, that's a very,
Speaker:very valid point for sure. How can you be free
Speaker:in all of the ways?
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm pleased that you mentioned your
Speaker:early 20s, because I was just going to ask you, did you go
Speaker:to university?
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: You.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: And. And if you did, how did it affect your career?
Speaker:And if you didn't, how did it affect your career?
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Oh, I'm so glad you asked that, Joe. I love that
Speaker:question. no, I didn't go to university.
Speaker:I am not academic. I didn't even sit all of my
Speaker:exams. M. Don't. It's not a
Speaker:bit of me at all. So as cringe and as
Speaker:cliche is, I'm the university of life, as it were. So,
Speaker:yeah, just love it. Knew that I wanted to get
Speaker:into work, knew I didn't even want to be at school
Speaker:anymore. and at that point in my life, I
Speaker:knew that I wanted to be a hairdresser. So I knew that I knew the
Speaker:path I needed to go down, which is a more creative one.
Speaker:Then ended up realising that being a
Speaker:hairdresser is kind of like being a therapist, isn't it, in terms of
Speaker:asking questions which then really set me up for
Speaker:success in sales? Because you have to be curious and
Speaker:you have to ask questions and really
Speaker:lead people to a position where they're
Speaker:coming to their own decisions, which
Speaker:ultimately may or may not be what
Speaker:you need that answer to be to. To be able to create
Speaker:a need to sell something back. So, yeah, I think
Speaker:the hairdressing actually put me in really good stead in terms of
Speaker:how I ended up in sales. But no, no university
Speaker:for me. And I think everybody's very
Speaker:different. Ultimately. Back to
Speaker:my original point, whereas I love money, I think
Speaker:wherever you end up in a career,
Speaker:unless it is a vocation like nursing,
Speaker:you know, healthcare, what have you,
Speaker:ultimately you're going to want to earn a good
Speaker:wage. And it makes me
Speaker:really happy to know that, my friends and my peers that
Speaker:have been to uni, I know I'm earning more than them
Speaker:and, you know, and I've done it without a degree, so,
Speaker:you know.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Sorry, I'm laughing. Yeah, yeah, it makes you happy to
Speaker:know that, though, right? Is this piece about. Well, actually, it wasn't a
Speaker:mistake for me not to go to uni.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah, it was never going to be an
Speaker:option for me. Definitely not. I just didn't even
Speaker:have. And back in, though, you know, back in the 90s, late
Speaker:90s, you needed to have, you know, A's and B's
Speaker:I didn't even get, like C was my highest
Speaker:grade. So there was just no chance that I would even get into a
Speaker:university anyway. And I was done with
Speaker:studying. Like as soon as possible
Speaker:I could rip those books up. I was out.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: You were out? Yeah.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: You got.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: But academic.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: I think you could feel quite passionate about not being in
Speaker:uni.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: You already know you're capable of more. You don't need
Speaker:permission, you need strategy.
Speaker:Let's make it happen. Drop me an email at,
Speaker:joewomanbehindthewomen
Speaker:ah.com
Speaker:or find me online. You'll find
Speaker:everything you need to get in touch with me in the show. Notes.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: One of the questions that I wanted to ask you, because
Speaker:you've got such a rich background and
Speaker:so much experience, I guess I wanted to
Speaker:ask you, what's the one question that you
Speaker:wish more people asked you
Speaker:about your work and about your journey?
Speaker:What's the one question that you wish they just took time
Speaker:to ask about your journey?
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: I think exactly what you did and how we're here
Speaker:and how we've arrived today. Like, like, tell me
Speaker:about how you got into it. Because I
Speaker:can be quite surface. But, equally I'm an open
Speaker:book and I love to get deep and you know that I did
Speaker:make some decisions in my career that, that moved
Speaker:me, you know, out
Speaker:of banking for example.
Speaker:But yeah, I, I just love the fact
Speaker:that you can open up that
Speaker:question and, and show interest. And I think
Speaker:if anything, women need to be more
Speaker:curious, ask those questions, you know,
Speaker:seek to understand people and their journey and
Speaker:how they've got to where they got to where
Speaker:they are. So I think that question is the perfect opener,
Speaker:for sure, talk me through your career journey today,
Speaker:but talk me, talk me through the
Speaker:why, like why did you make those
Speaker:decisions? Why? To be
Speaker:industry to that industry. Yeah, you know, what, what is,
Speaker:what's the reason for that? I think is also a good question.
Speaker:A, follow up question I think.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Is important, isn't it, to be able to understand, you know, what was the push
Speaker:from the, from the org and what was the pull
Speaker:to the next org and actually what was going on
Speaker:in between that? Was it cultural? Was it an individual?
Speaker:Was it just lack of challenge? Was it the money? Was
Speaker:it that confidence had grown during that role and therefore we were
Speaker:ready to move on? You know, what was that evolution piece each
Speaker:time? Because I think so often women who see
Speaker:another, another female who has in their eyes,
Speaker:quote, unquote, made it, made it, might not even
Speaker:Realise actually for that woman to make it,
Speaker:it was, you know, it was tough. It was a journey and they can
Speaker:learn from that, right? My journey was tough, really tough. I'm still on it.
Speaker:It's not, you know, nothing's ever, nothing comes easy, does it?
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: This is it exactly. And I think, you know, if, if
Speaker:you're okay with this I'll just share, you know, one of those
Speaker:movements in my career so, you know, is that
Speaker:Barclays Bank. I was there for three
Speaker:probably hack a job where I am now and Barclays have been my
Speaker:most successful jobs for sure.
Speaker:But I was at Barclays for three and a half years. I'd actually
Speaker:won Business Manager of the Year.
Speaker:I'd won two platinum awards for my
Speaker:contribution to business banking.
Speaker:So I was, you know, highly regarded within London. People
Speaker:knew who I was, which was fantastic. I had a reputation for
Speaker:all the right reasons. And then I made a shift
Speaker:from business banking into
Speaker:what, what they classified it as premier banking or
Speaker:like private banking. So dealing with high net worth
Speaker:people. And in that part of
Speaker:that was to go on a two
Speaker:week kind of assessment just to make sure that you're hitting
Speaker:your targets then you're delivering on all of your
Speaker:KPIs and all of that good stuff. I was
Speaker:one week into that two week assessment and my
Speaker:dad passed away. So I was kind of in
Speaker:the room but not really anyway for that first week and then
Speaker:when that happened I took two
Speaker:weeks out. I had to, I'm an only child.
Speaker:I had to organise the funeral and do everything
Speaker:myself. Oh my God. Well,
Speaker:because mum, you know, as you could imagine that's your husband of
Speaker:30 odd years, she was not in a position to be
Speaker:able to really think, let alone function at that point.
Speaker:So yeah, you have to step up and work
Speaker:through that. So you know, did
Speaker:that in that two week period, came back finished, that
Speaker:assessment, passed, exceeded everything that
Speaker:I needed to. But they decided that
Speaker:because it wasn't the two weeks continuous
Speaker:assessment, irrespective of my, you know,
Speaker:extenuating circumstances, that they weren't going to pass
Speaker:this assessment and then sign me off.
Speaker:So I just chose to quit. I just
Speaker:left. I had no job, I had no idea of what
Speaker:I was going to do next. But my, you know, the principles,
Speaker:my principles meant more and my value
Speaker:meant more than that, you know.
Speaker:And so when I exited I wrote quite a long email
Speaker:to all of the exec board actually at that
Speaker:particular bank because I needed them to know you've let
Speaker:someone exceptional go based on
Speaker:a rule that you weren't prepared to
Speaker:flex on despite the circumstances.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: And whose rule? Who made that rule? I mean, that's just
Speaker:ridiculous. You lost your dad. It wasn't. It
Speaker:wasn't extended family, it was your dad.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah, the person, you know, half of the person that
Speaker:created me, so, you know,
Speaker:that was. I didn't even look at it as a scary
Speaker:time. I was just so adamant that I was
Speaker:doing this and making this choice. Of course, Mum
Speaker:was like, you've just lost your dad
Speaker:and you're putting yourself in such a position of vulnerability.
Speaker:And I was like, I don't care. It's the principle. And
Speaker:so I think that definitely had a really
Speaker:big impact on kind of
Speaker:the value piece in terms of who I am and,
Speaker:how valuable I can be in a business and not
Speaker:accepting that behaviour. And,
Speaker:you know, I. I think it's definitely shaped
Speaker:decisions that I've made because, again, I don't.
Speaker:Because you lose somebody so significant in your life, you
Speaker:get a certain level of perspective as well, and
Speaker:knowing the extent of how much you're going to
Speaker:invest into a business that's. That's not your own
Speaker:and, you know, and work to
Speaker:the best of your ability, but know that there's balance as well.
Speaker:So, yeah, that, that was definitely one story that, had
Speaker:shaped career.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Choices for sure, and it
Speaker:shaped this resilience piece and this piece around.
Speaker:I know who I am, I understand my value
Speaker:and I'm going through a really tough time. But you won't,
Speaker:you won't take that from me. And
Speaker:I think it's interesting that you wrote to the execs and
Speaker:told them, and I wondered if there was ever any response
Speaker:from it.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Immediate. Immediate. Yeah. So the
Speaker:next day, the regional director called me, offered
Speaker:me the job back, said I could work anywhere within
Speaker:the region to any other, line
Speaker:manager. And I said no, because the trust has been broken and
Speaker:it's too little, too late, and
Speaker:I'm not prepared to do that. And then, of course, it also
Speaker:gave me the opportunity to actually grieve and
Speaker:process success and work through all of that, because that's
Speaker:a whole other story for a whole other podcast
Speaker:episode. But, yeah, dad had a lot of mental health
Speaker:challenges and it was a deterioration over
Speaker:time. So, you know, naturally, again, when you're
Speaker:trying to deal with the loss of somebody, but also
Speaker:that 10 years leading up to. With
Speaker:numerous, issues and
Speaker:challenges, you know, I also took that as an opportunity
Speaker:to have some time to just process and deal
Speaker:and go into therapy and. Yeah, Work on,
Speaker:on, work on all.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Of that and just press pause for the time that
Speaker:you needed.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Totally, totally. And then, yeah,
Speaker:that put me on a different trajectory. And again, what I love
Speaker:about my cv, you know, is I've gone from
Speaker:hairdressing to mobile phones to telecom
Speaker:to banking to software. I've, it's
Speaker:not been a straightforward journey and I think again,
Speaker:transferable skills. Right. I've, you know, done
Speaker:account management for 15 years. I finally
Speaker:got my title that I've worked 15 years for as an
Speaker:account director. I'm not letting that go. And
Speaker:but it means that I can go in any direction in
Speaker:any field that I, that I choose to. Because
Speaker:you are an account manager or account director, you can
Speaker:do that job in any industry. It's,
Speaker:it's transferable, which is brilliant.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: And if we look at, you know, you now and you,
Speaker:you said earlier on as we were talking, I've kind of, you know, I've
Speaker:got the W post that I feel like for me, I've made it.
Speaker:I wondered if you were sat opposite 21 year
Speaker:old Helen M. I
Speaker:wondered what you would tell her about how
Speaker:to navigate life as a, female,
Speaker:how to navigate life as a woman. I wondered what you'd
Speaker:sit and look her in the eye and explain to her.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yeah, I mean it's, it's interesting because I had one
Speaker:of my good friends, her daughter, she
Speaker:stayed over a couple of weekends ago and she's 13, so
Speaker:she's in that ripe age of just
Speaker:can go any direction. And so even though you're
Speaker:asking what I'd say to 21 year old me, it's what
Speaker:I'd say to, to me as
Speaker:a child, which is worth,
Speaker:self worth and self love. Because even
Speaker:with that banking situation when I shifted in my
Speaker:career, I still didn't love myself then, but I knew
Speaker:my value as an employee. Now I
Speaker:know my value and my worth as a human being in this
Speaker:world and that's taken a very long time.
Speaker:So whether I'm talking to 21 year old me
Speaker:or 13 year old, you know, niece, for
Speaker:one of a better word, you know, it's love
Speaker:yourself, know yourself, be a shepherd and not a
Speaker:sheep. Wear whatever clothes you want to
Speaker:wear that please you no matter how old you are.
Speaker:And don't be influenced, like
Speaker:be your own person in this world and
Speaker:really carve out your
Speaker:career and your future for yourself. Because
Speaker:ultimately there's going to be stages in this life where you're going to
Speaker:be alone. You know, I have my partner We've been
Speaker:together, you know, three and a half years now, but we live
Speaker:separately. So I still live alone, you know,
Speaker:and you have to be strong
Speaker:and resilient and know yourself
Speaker:and know your worth and know the
Speaker:impact that you can make in this world
Speaker:and how much for you.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: When you look back on your journey, how much
Speaker:of you relied on your own self
Speaker:belief and your own sense of self, do you think
Speaker:during the journey?
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: All the time. All the time. Because there was
Speaker:a situation where I was totally blindsided and got
Speaker:let go of a business and that really
Speaker:knocks your confidence. And I again, on
Speaker:reflection, you go actually, well, do you know what, the numbers don't
Speaker:lie. And you're in a, you know, a sales role. I
Speaker:ultimately, if you're not hitting your number, you don't, you
Speaker:know, you shouldn't be in that business. It's not the right business for
Speaker:you. But that again, you know, just gives you such a
Speaker:sense of reflection and okay, that was a real
Speaker:humbling experience. And what can I learn from that and
Speaker:what will I do differently? So yeah, then
Speaker:it's a case of okay, gotta just sit here
Speaker:in these feelings right now and
Speaker:then, you know, stand up, brush yourself off and
Speaker:crack on like you just have to. And again,
Speaker:you know, if we look, talking about financial freedom,
Speaker:I am an only child. I do not rely
Speaker:on my partner to pay my mortgage. I do
Speaker:not rely on my mum to pay my mortgage. I pay my own
Speaker:goddamn mortgage. And you know, that
Speaker:is my determination. you know, and that's
Speaker:what drives me forward. It's like, who's going to pay my bills
Speaker:at the end of the month?
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: That's right, yeah. Nobody else. Exactly that.
Speaker:Exactly that. And during your, during your
Speaker:career, of course, you've created
Speaker:momentum. you've been courageous,
Speaker:you've been confident, you've made moves that maybe others
Speaker:might be less comfortable making. You've taken
Speaker:risks, you're not risk averse. Equally,
Speaker:you'll measure those risks. But I wondered if
Speaker:there'd ever been because I quite often think about my 13 year
Speaker:old self or my 21 year old self and think there are things
Speaker:that I would have told her, about working in male dominated
Speaker:environments. There would have been conversations I would
Speaker:have had so that she really understood what
Speaker:being objectified meant. She understood
Speaker:what some of those microaggressions meant. She understood that
Speaker:it wasn't a her thing, it was a them thing.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Yes.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: And I wondered if you'd ever kind of
Speaker:been under that male gaze or that attention and
Speaker:maybe Considered, you know, or almost
Speaker:succumbed to the pressure of,
Speaker:what will men think if I do X, Y and Z?
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Ah. so funny because this actually is quite recent
Speaker:actually. And, and I was, you know,
Speaker:a matter of two weeks in, in a,
Speaker:a company, we'll say and okay,
Speaker:yeah, yeah, a company. And they said, oh, hi, calm
Speaker:down, don't need to be so aggressive. I was like,
Speaker:sorry, I'm, being assertive. I'm stating
Speaker:an opinion. but yes, it's really
Speaker:interesting. And there's a lady called Molly who's the
Speaker:CEO of a company called Flexa, and she put
Speaker:such a brilliant post out. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker:she put such a brilliant post out on LinkedIn about there's a big
Speaker:difference between, between being assertive and aggressive.
Speaker:And there was all of these comparisons. And that is
Speaker:the post I would share with any woman. It's
Speaker:like really understanding that and being able to
Speaker:speak up for yourself and say it with your
Speaker:chest, as I like to say as well. Just own
Speaker:it and own, power and own your
Speaker:strength in a room. And I will
Speaker:never let somebody interrupt me, for example, and
Speaker:I'm m very guilty of interrupting other people.
Speaker:But, you know, when there's an important message to say,
Speaker:if somebody even tries to interject in a, in a,
Speaker:you know, working environment, I'll say, you can, you can speak
Speaker:in a second. But you know, I haven't finished
Speaker:my point. Don't ever be afraid to
Speaker:stand your ground and stand in your power because
Speaker:you have a voice, it deserves to be
Speaker:heard. And your opinion is really
Speaker:important and really matters.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: That's just, that's given me goosebumps. And that, I
Speaker:think, is where we will end our conversation. I couldn't agree more.
Speaker:It's about your opinion. It's about taking up your own space.
Speaker:It's about not being smaller so others can be taller.
Speaker:And I think that the, the sharing that you've done
Speaker:today has been amazing. And I
Speaker:think, and my hope is that people get to listen and hear
Speaker:that anything is possible.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: It's all just about as well. Right? You know,
Speaker:I'm where I want to be in terms of my
Speaker:title, finally getting there, and I'm kind of at the top of my
Speaker:career, but I'm not done. There's so much
Speaker:more to come. Like you as well, Joe. Right.
Speaker:You know, we've got to the top of the peak of the
Speaker:mountain, but now we've got to just climb another one.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: And that's, that's just another one to go. Yeah,
Speaker:absolutely, absolutely, yeah. Well, on that note,
Speaker:thank you so much for being an amazing guest. It has been
Speaker:wonderful spending time with you. Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker:Here.
Speaker:>> Helen Bandcroft: Oh, it's been amazing. Thanks for inviting me, and
Speaker:I'll come back at any
Speaker:do. Thank you.
Speaker:>> Jo Phillips: Helen Bancroft, everybody. Thank you.
Speaker:As you were.
